34 Comments 34评论 El Guesto on Aug 1, 10:35 AMsaid: @Mulin: One of the Koreans is. 大韩民国又中枪 Pal on Aug 1, 8:48 AMsaid: Kicked out for beingstrategic? Commmoonnnnnn 被踢出是策略?come on! 顶16 踩22 EleutheriosKrakademastenopopolous on Aug 1, 8:59 AMsaid: @Pal: The Chinese are usingevery illegal cheat in the book. Massive Chinese cheating is happening. China ischeating on an unimaginable scale. China is HUGE CHEATING!!
Take it from me, Eleutherios! I knows a thing or two about it!! 中国人的书里充满了非法的欺骗。庞大的中国在作弊。中国以难以想象的规模欺骗世人。中国是巨大的欺骗！而我，Eleutherios！我至少知道它两次！
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cjy on Aug 1, 9:31 AMsaid: @YaaBaa: i actually feel bad justbecause this strategy is used all the time and well know in badminton...to bekicked out without a warning is just stupid and unfair to the players 其实我认为这样不好，只是因为这个策略每时每刻都在被使用，众所周知没有警告就把羽毛球队友踢出赛程是愚蠢的，对运动员不公平
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Popo on Aug 1, 10:39 AMsaid: @YaaBaa: The problem ultimatelylies with the organization of the sport itself. The administrators need to beable to randomize matches and add additional matches in order to prevent gamingthe march order and choice of opponent. Ultimately these players wererecognizing a serious flaw in the sport -- which is that winning is NOT anissue of winning the match, but an issue of winning the tournament. And thosetwo things are not always in alignment. The players were all acting in theirbest interest. Had either team won this match, they would have fared worse inthe tournament. The administrators are unreasonably expecting the players toknow this and act against their own best interests. I suspect that both teamsbegan trying to fake it less obviously, but as the game drew to a close,neither team had any options: they had to lose then and there.
The administrators should have added new rounds and randomized matching inorder to remove any possibility of gaming the tournament lineup.
最终的问题在于组织运动的模式。管理员应该随机匹配，并添加额外的比赛，来保护比赛的行程秩序和选择对手。这些运动员最终认为这项运动存在严重漏洞 – 笑到最后的才是笑的最好的，如同田忌赛马一样，某阶段的胜利是输不是赢，调整排列顺序才使结果最理想。运动员们都在为他们的最佳利益行事。任何一方赢得这场比赛，最终比赛结果更糟糕。管理员期待运动员们明知这一点，还违背自己的最佳利益行事是不合理的。我怀疑，这两支球队开始尝试故意输给对方还不明显，但随着比赛接近尾声，中国队和韩国队都不得不面临选择：非在这次比赛中输不可，无论用什么方式。管理员应该增添了新的回合和随机匹配，以消除任何戏耍比赛的可能性。

Anokaon Aug 1, 12:05 PMsaid: @cjy: If that is the case, thewhole "sport" should be permanently kicked out of the Olympics 如果这样，整个“运动会”岂不就是运动员不断“被赢”的过程 K on Aug 1, 1:41 PMsaid: @Anoka: Why not just change thetournament format so you can't take advantage of playing a lower ranked teamwhen you lose? 为何不改下比赛的形式，这样你就不能通过小组排名较低的优势去比下一场？ HarmyG on Aug 1, 4:10 PMsaid: @Anoka: No, they just need to doaway with the round robin format and/or schedule more simultaneous matches. 不是这样，她们只需要多循环比赛，就能让赛程表同时更匹配了。 GamesOnly on Aug 1, 11:23 PMsaid: @Popo: Games should belong tothe players 运动会应该属于运动员
BAD minton on Aug 1, 9:21 AMsaid: Clearly, there is afundamental difference in East and West thinking. Collectivism in the East isclear, they are there to earn as many medals as possible as a team and country.The West are more individulistic, thus they play only for themselves. Also,using tactics to win the most is clear in many East strategy books, oh letssay, The Art of War. I completely blame the organizers of this London 2012 totry to possibly get more money from selling more tickets from round robinsystem rather than a fixed elimination system like it has always been done. 显然，东方和西方的思想有根本区别。东方的集体主义很明确，他们要为国家赚取尽可能多的奖牌，从大局出发。西方更个人主义，因此他们只为自己发挥。此外，利用战术取得最终胜利的事件在许多东亚战略书籍中出现，哦，让我说，“孙子兵法”。我完全把这个循环赛制，而不是一个固定的淘汰制度归咎于2012年伦敦奥运会的组织者试图销售更多的门票来赚钱。顶5 踩8


crusader75 on Aug 1, 10:00 AMsaid: @Darth: Marion Jones and MarkMcGwire cheated so all Americans are cheaters. See the logical fallacy? 马里恩·琼斯和MarkMcGwire是骗子，因此所有美国人都是骗子。看到逻辑上的谬误吗？
顶 29踩1 Anokaon Aug 1, 3:17 PMsaid: @TC: You are correct.Throwing games is not a strategy. I refer you to the Chicago White Sox in the1919 World Series if you need a object lesson. 你说的没错。投掷比赛不是一种策略。我提醒你1919年世界系列赛的芝加哥白袜队，如果你需要举例。
bloodworm on Aug 1, 9:33 AMsaid: That's pretty harshpunishment. Maybe the problem is how group play is implemented. 这是相当严厉的处罚。也许问题的关键是团体运动员怎样协调.
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Libervative on Aug 1, 9:45 AMsaid: The moral of the story?If you're going to throw a game, don't make it so damn obvious.
USA!USA! 这个故事的寓意是如果你要故意输掉，该死的,别这么明显。美利坚!美利坚! 顶 11踩16


Unbelievable on Aug 1, 9:50 AMsaid: The lack of ethics expressedby so many on this board is amazing. Comparing an intentional pass in baseballor coasting in a swim qualifier to deliberating conspiring to throw a game isridiculous. It's not even in the same universe. You people need to take a lookin the mirror. You lack any ethics whatsoever. I'm sure you would lie cheat andsteal to get anything you want. What slimy people you are. I hope these peopleare flat out banned from their sport. They are a complete disgrace as are thepeople on this board excusing such a thing.
Shame on all of you. 这个论坛上怎么有这么多缺乏道德的家伙,真惊人。比起故意输掉棒球或游泳时限定空转,酝酿阴谋放弃比赛是荒谬的。你们和我甚至不是一个世界的人。你们这样的人，需要照照镜子。你们缺乏任何道德。我敢肯定，你会撒谎去骗去偷任何你想要的。你的人格是粘糊糊的。我希望这些人都被赶出去，禁止他们参加运动。他们和在这里辩解此事的人是一类的，人类的耻辱。
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westerneduchinese on Aug 1, 1:47 PMsaid: @Unbelievable: You have zerointrospection. I guarantee you people who know you have said the exact samething about you.
This is not match-rigging, not 'conspiring' -it's a flat-out attempt to losethe game. What rule says you must try to win? None, because it is assumed. Thusthe organisers have completely messed up by encouraging losing and punishingwinning.
To call it 'unethical' would be like me expecting you to share your bankaccount with me equally no questions asked, because equality and fairness isthe ultimate principle, no? 你从不反省自己。我保证你们这些道貌岸然的家伙或了解你们为人的家伙说确切同样的事情。这不是操纵比赛，也不是“阴谋”，她们就是简单的企图输掉比赛。哪条规则说了运动员必须尽力取胜呢？没有，因为规则是你自作主张假定的。因此，组织者鼓励失败者和处罚胜利者已经完全搞砸了。我们称之为“不道德”，就像我期待，您平等地与我分享银行帐户一样,毫无疑问，平等和公平才是最终原则，不是吗？
stop making this about race on Aug 1, 9:51 AMsaid: This is about Misalignedincentives. This about the rules for some of the olympic games and advancementbeing plain stupid. You can see another example of poorly thought out Olympicrules leading to bad results in Womens Gymnastics when the reigning world champJordyn Wieber was unable to advance because of the limitation of tworepresentatives per country.
As for Badminton, any economics 101 professor will tell you that 'incentivesmatter' 这只是动机不良。这是一些关于奥运会和选拔的愚蠢规则。你可以看到另一个未经深思熟虑的奥运规则的例子，导致糟糕的结果，在女子体操卫冕世界冠军Jordyn Wieber无法前进，因为每个国家限制两名代表。对于羽毛球，任何经济学101教授会告诉你这是“奖励的问题' 顶 21踩10


WRONG on Aug 1, 10:21 AMsaid: You guys don't even dobasic fact checking, do you? The teams from group A were paired with group C inthe tournament, and teams from B with D. So Wang/Yu and Ha/Kim would've metQing/Yunlei in the quarters (I think, maybe it's semis). I know you don'treally care about facts necessarily, but come on...
blourf on Aug 1, 10:56 AMsaid: It's called strategy.everyone should quit whining 这就是所谓的战略。每个人都应该放弃赢
westerneduchinese on Aug 1, 12:57 PMsaid: Problem with thecompetition structure - don't blame the players, if you dominate the sport andare forced to play yourself resulting in inferior players 'winning' better ones-what would you do?
U.S.college admissions -Asian student needs 1600 SAT to get into top school,Causasian student needs 1500, other minorities?- 1400
There is no fairness, just sides. -Paraphrased; Cao Cao, Three Kingdoms 问题在于竞争结构——别责怪运动员，如果你可以通过输掉这场比赛，来改变之后的赛程，让最终结果更好，你还会尽力打吗？美国大学入门分数——亚州学生要求1600分，高加索裔学生要求1500分，少数民族要求1400分没有公平，只有立场——转述《三国演义》曹操

看了一下属于什么立场都有~

1. o Wo CA I think that choosing to disqualify them is best. We all know that it most likely wasn't the players choices, but their coaches and the people even above them, to carry out these strategies to play poorly on purpose. If you saw the matches, it was obvious they were doing this, as they should have been playing like some of the best in the world. We don't wish that the players have to suffer because of their coaches decisions. Its clearly not of good intentions to play your worst, to get the upper hand, and i don't think they were just saving their strength for later, and it's obvious now. 我认为，选择取消他们资格是最好的。我们都知道，执行这种消极应战的战略，这很可能不是球员的选择，而是教练甚至教练之上的人做出的。如果你看到比赛就会发现，很明显他们这样做了，他们本应该像其他最好的选手一样比赛。我们不希望因为他们教练的决定，而导致球员受到影响。以打得不好来占据上风，显然不是良好的意图，我不认为他们只是在为以后的比赛保存自己的实力，这很明显。 o Aug. 2, 2012 at 10:08 a.m. O RECOMMENDED1 2. o Kingofthenet o Jersey City,NJ新泽西州 泽西城 The problem here is the rules, they reward losing. Another issue it that BOTH teams saw the value in losing, so you had the ridiculousness of TWO teams trying to 'out lose' each other. 问题在规则，输者能得到奖励。两支球队都发现了输掉比赛的价值，所以有了这荒谬的两支球队争输。

应邀再发一些法国某报纸论坛的网民对此事的看法，貌似法国人更关心他们自己。。

Wilza06
Oui mais alors la, c'est primaire de chez primaire (y'a quoi en dessous de primaire ?)
Le 1/08/2012 à 17:25
嗯，这家伙是从脑残院里出来的，还有什么比脑残更脑残？
archimède33
Pourquoi une pareille discipline aux JO ?
Le 1/08/2012 à 10:50
为啥奥运都是相同的纪律？
Xeroxorex
Pourquoi pas ?
Le 1/08/2012 à 11:35
为什么不呢？
Galathilion
hop, élimination directe, ça fera un exemple et ça leur apprendra. Je sens surtout que c'était une consigne de leurs coachs.
Le 1/08/2012 à 10:57
直接剔除吧，这可以让他们得到教训。我敢肯定协议球是教练的意思。


Jean Historien
--Gala, Oui, ce serait ainsi la seule chance de la France de gagner au badminton et autres disciplines !
Si on a le droit de gagner, pourquoi n'aurait on pas le droit de perdre ??? MDR!
Le 1/08/2012 à 12:09
这才是法国赢得羽毛球和其它项目的唯一机会！ 可笑！
既然我们有权利去赢，为啥没权利去输呢？？？ 可笑！
BEST TAIPEI 101 (台湾人)
Dans le sport le but est de gagner, tout de même !
En football, truquer un match peut vous envoyer devant les tribunaux !
Le 1/08/2012 à 13:57
体育的目的还是为了赢！在足球里，踢假球能把你送上法院！
jacqueline schweitzer
mais ce n'est pas une première dans le sport ,il faut se souvenir d'un match de coupe du monde de foot hollande _a....... et cesera encore pire maintenant avec les paris sportifs ( voir certaines erreures d'arbitrages non comprise )
这在体育里不是第一次了，让人回想起世界杯上的荷兰队。。。巴黎的体坛更恶心（看看那些无语的裁判误判）
Jacques Deloche
Et alors ??? quand Fromme reçoit l'ordre de son DS de ralentir pour ne pas atomiser Wiggins dans la montée de la Toussuire, afin de lui faire gagner le tour de France, vous appelez cela comment ???? pourquoi n'avez vous pas réagi, tous les bien-pensants ????.....
（译注：大概是环法比赛有人给队友让位，以便队友获胜......）
Nicolas AA
Elles auraient pu s'arranger pour faire cela un peu plus discrétement...Ce n'est pas très malin !
Le 1/08/2012 à 11:15
她们应该在打协议球的时候，演的更逼真些，真傻！


Antoine00300002
Exclusion.
Le 1/08/2012 à 11:16
取消她们参赛资格。
jean bronner
du sport sponsorisé par un soda (120g de sucre par litre, on se demande comment ça arrive à être liquide !) dangereux et cancérigène...
Le 1/08/2012 à 11:27
这比赛的赞助商是个危险且致癌的汽水（每升120克糖，谁能告诉我这怎么还能是液体！）
Verdure001
Ces pays sont de mauvais joueurs, c'est connu. Aucun fair-playstation, ce n'est pas dans leur culture.
Le 1/08/2012 à 11:30
众所周知，这些国家尽出烂选手。没有任何公平竞赛精神，他们没有这个文化传统。
Michel Etienne 1
Connu de vous seul, alors ! Le 1/08/2012 à 13:27
只是对你一人而言，还众所周知哩！


Keroro
Et pour les équipes de foot qui font pas jouer leurs joueurs clés pour les préserver pour le gros match suivant, y a un truc de prévu?
Non mais là, ça frise la bêtise quand même!
Le 1/08/2012 à 14:13
在足球里，不经常有雪藏主力为后面比赛保存体力嘛，这也算有预谋的？ 白痴才会觉得这是打假球！
vartanjean
Ce n'est pas pire que nos élus et président qui sont rémunérés par je ne sais qui pour amener la France à la catastrophes !!!
Le 1/08/2012 à 18:10
这不会比我们拿高额工资的总统更烂了，不知谁会带领法国走向灾难！！！